Forum Audi A8 Klub Polska [D3 FL ALL ] Radar distronic

Gość · Wysłany: 2016-05-21, 14:12

Tylko że te info wymaga logowania

gotman25 · Wysłany: 2016-05-21, 14:30

Kurcze szkoda po tam masz wszystko opisane.

Nie wiem jak to tutaj dac:)

drago_o · Wysłany: 2016-05-21, 14:47

Screeny albo skopiuj tresc

Ja nie mogę znaleźć tych zeszytów z tym ale będę jeszcze szukał.

gotman25 · Wysłany: 2016-05-21, 14:56

OK guys for those of you wishing to carry out the above this will hopefully give you the info required to help you on the way.

On the face of it it seems like a big job but when its broken down into sections it really is not that bad to do.

So I went about the job by first trawling through ELSA, ETKA and Bentley manuals to see what parts are needed to complete.

The key components to working ACC are (Note the S8 related parts)
S8 Instrument Cluster 4E0 920 981 FX
Distance regulation control stalk 4E0 953 521 C 4PK
Gateway with extended CAN 4E0 907 468 F or 4E0 907 468 H
Radar unit 4E0 907 561 F
Plug housing for radar 4E0 972 713
Terminals for radar Plug housing can be found here
Plug seals for housing here
Wire seals for housing here
S8 Grill suitable for ACC 4E0 853 651 AM 1RR Grill comes with no number plate surround or fasteners but does include radar cover.
licence plate holder 4E0 807 285 AD 1RR
4 x Panel Screws N 104 055 02
4 x Speed Nuts N 900 942 01
1 x Repair wire for Gateway extra wiring 000 979 010 E
1 x Repair wire for Mini Fuse fitment 000 979 021 E
3 x M6 x 16mm bolts for mounting radar N 104 492 02 (Specially coated to prevent corrosion don't cheap out and use normal ones)

You will also need to source the following if you don't have it already
0.5mm2 max wire in suitable colours or a way to clearly identify your wires
Good tool kit This is what I used
Soldering Iron
Heat shrink
Crimping pliers for the terminals Like these
Crimping pliers for Normal electrical crimps
Multimeter for testing
Tyraps
Dielectric grease
Coroplast loom tape
Plenty of time

Before starting work do a full Auto scan and be sure to save the results.

I recommend you have at least a radar, gateway, and the parts for wiring that are needed so you can test the radar before removing the bumper etc and having a disappointment.

Begin by making a harness for the radar to the Gateway and fuse box, I made mine starting at the Radar end so it would be an unbroken loom without joints on the outside of the car.

Pace out the length needed from front centre, across the front to passenger headlight, over the top of the wing and onwards to the inside giving yourself plenty extra so you can terminate inside the car.

Using two separate coloured wires mount them in a drill and fasten other ends in vice or have assistant help, twist the wires together to form a twisted pair of fairly tight lay up <20mm

Then cut and terminate the other wires ready not forgetting to place the wire seals on first

Insert the terminals in the housing after unlocking the pink locking strips by pushing them across the housing, with the locking tang facing outwards of the housing until you feel it snap into place.

Do not push in the wire seals yet!!!

Once you have done that check the continuity of the harness with a multimeter by back probing the housing before proceeding any further, once happy tape the harness together using the coroplast tape. (Sorry no pictures)

Still don't insert the seals yet!!!

The wire numbers and my colours are as follows

1-Ground (Blue)
2-Can-H (Orange)
4-Can-L (Yellow)
12-12v Positive feed (Red)

Next would be the replacement of the Gateway and inserting extra wires to gateway harness and test the radar.

The Gateway is at the heart of the system changing it will not create any problems with the car while you are using it prior to fitting the other parts, you will however get a fault logged saying there is no comms with radar which is to be expected.

I am of the understanding that the Q7 gateways can be used in the A8/S8 but there is a chance that Component Protection will kick in if fitted.

I chose to stick to A8/S8 part numbers that were relevant to the systems I wanted in the car and I did not encounter CP on the fitment of the Gateway.

To gain access to the Gateway it requires the removal of the glovebox

You can take a little shortcut here like I did and drop the glovebox with the AMI/CD changer still in it or take them out like in the photo's below.

I also find it easier if you remove the sill trim, pull it up nearest the seat and work forward and finally pull it away from dash.

So in the centre of the last picture above you can see the gateway next to the control head for the mmi

Replacement is really a matter of unclip the two connectors one electrical and one optical and two torx bolts.

While you are in here its a good time to prep the Gateway harness to accept the wiring from the radar and also to test the radar.

Start by sliding the locking tab on the end of the removed gateway electrical connector housing and then sliding out the internal part with the wires in.

Cut the repair wire 000 979 010 E in half and insert into 13 and 26 like the pictures below, mark the one in 13 with a sharpie pen or something so you know which one is CAN-H, then twist together.

Now temporarily join the pin 13 gateway to pin 2 radar, and 26 to 4 using choc block or similar and check again for correct connection and continuity.

Once you are happy you have wired the CAN connections correctly, connect the gateway harness back together and code the gateway to suit the options on your car (easy way is to copy the coding from your VCDS scan that you took prior to starting this, then using the long coding helper add ACC as well.

Also code module 7 for ACC

Once happy connect the radar to a fused supply, I used a cigar lighter adaptor connection thing and temp wired it to that.

Then you should now have the extra menu appear in the MMI under car/systems/adaptive cruise control

This is a quick visual way to tell you have comms with the radar, the other way is with vcds and look for module (13)

Now you can inserts the seals and plugs into the Connector housing for the radar.

Now you need to prep the fuse box for the connections that feed the radar or you could do this first before testing the radar, either way.

You need to remove the two bolts that hold the passenger side fuse box in place from the end of the dash and unclip the fuse box from the dash frame.

The pics are the opposite side but the same applies.

Now open the back of the fuse box and release the pink locking bar by sliding it over, so you may insert the fuse terminal repair wires 000 979 021 E into both side of slot 17

This is 17

Locking bar in locked position

Lever point to open the locking bar

Locking bar in open postion

Yellow repair wire inserted

Now I apologise I have no pictures of the connections in the back of the fuse box because I was pushed for time that day.

However you will see when you open the passenger side fuse box that slot 17 has no terminals so yo must fit both, using the repair wire cut in half, fit both terminals and lock the bar once done.

If you look at the wiring in the fuse box there is a few solid black wires, choose one of the wires and cut it in a suitable place to allow you to splice in the repair wire and join both sides of the black wire together using solder and heat-shrink or a butt crimp if you don't like soldering but I prefer solder over crimps.

The reason for using the black wire is it is a switched live and is only on with ignition on. Study the electrical diagrams and you will see the radar is also fed from a black wire which originates from the same relay.

Now once you have done that and happy the unterminated wire ends from gateway are going to come to no trouble you can put the glovebox back together for a while like I did or continue with the bumper removal and fitment of radar.

To fit the radar, the bumper needs to be removed along with the passenger side wheel arch liners and wheel, if you have axle stands or access to a ramp you may as well go ahead and remove the drivers side wheel too just to make life easier.

The instructions here are a bit vague IMO and I really struggled first time round on the bumper removal, so tips from me are
Pull out the foglight cover drivers side and remove the fog light
Disconnect the headlight washer pipe from the t piece carefully
Remove the fixings around the bottom of the wing
Drop the belly pan away from rear edge of bumper
Remove the front half of wheel arch liner completely on passenger side
Peel back the drivers side arch liner enough for access to the three nuts holding the bumper to the wing
Remove the three nuts both sides
Pull out the black trim that runs along the top of the grill
Dig out the two pieces of sponge hiding two bolts
pull out both side of the bumper at the bottom of the wings
Finally remove the fixings along the top of the bumper 7 in total

You can now carefully pull bumper clear of the car and be careful as there are two electrical connectors attached to the bumper on passenger side, release them and you should be clear to put it to one side.

You can reach the three nuts securing the bumper to the wing (driver side) by reaching around through the opening but its easier through the wheel arch with liner peeled back.

You can see the studs where the three nuts are and the washer hose t piece in this photo

With the bumper off you can now continue and peel back the rear wheel arch liner on the passenger side to reveal the route in for the wiring.

This shows the rear liner pulled down enough for clearance

Now go ahead and mount the Radar to the bumper beam, it can be done with it in place but for all the time it took to remove it, I chose to do it that way.

Its just two 18mm bolts either end and remove the horn bracket from the mounting giving you easy access to the three mounting holes for the radar bracket.

Mounted to bar and cable following existing wiring

Harness follows the original wiring past headlight like below see white tyraps for route

The harness continues through into area at the top of the wing and follows the original wiring back to the rear of the wing next to the Valve block for the Suspension.

Once you have reached the area of the Valve block you need to release the metal clamp holding the loom in place and cut off the tyrap around the neck of the rubber boot.

Then using a coat hanger or cable fishing device feed the harness from one side of the rubber boot to the other side inside the car.

You can see the new harness inside the rubber boot now.

Refit the cable clamp to the loom and you can now go ahead and finish the wiring for the radar inside the car.

Cut back the harness to a sensible length now and remove the loom tape far enough back to allow you to join the required wires together.

You will have already put in the repair wires to the fuse box, so go ahead and solder or crimp them together and insulate

Join the two can wires in the same way to the tails you have from before ensuring to keep the twist as tight as possible to avoid interference.

Fit the ground wire crimp and bolt to the chassis of the car just inside the door at the base of the pillar.

You can now fit the fuse in position 17 and confirm that you have comms to the radar again, if all is good then proceed to put the new grill in the bumper and rebuild the car.

Only hardware items remaining are the stalk for cruise control and the cluster.

To remove the stalk the Steering wheel needs to be removed.

But in order to do so the Airbag needs to be removed and its easier done with the engine running.

Start the car and rotate the wheel round 90 degrees and remove the cap covering the securing bolt for the airbag, turn to the opposite way and repeat, make sure once you have undone the bolts to prevent the airbag falling out of the wheel while you re-centre the steering.

Now Disconnect the battery with the ignition on but not with engine running to dissipate energy from the electrical systems and prior to unplugging the airbag be sure to ground yourself first by touching the door latch loop or other point of chassis.

Pull the airbag forward carefully and disconnect the wiring harness and put aside, remove the securing bolt from the centre and mark the alignment of the wheel then remove it.

You need to drop the dash below the steering wheel and to do that remove the trim both sides like in the pictures.

Start by opening the coin holder the slide the front part to the left so it unclips, then close it again.

You can now remove the trim piece by starting at the end nearest the door pry outward with a trim tool working along towards the steering wheel.

Do the same process for the short trim on the other side

Now remove the fasteners for the lower dash panel, one either side of column, two on end of dash at fuse box and one next to transmission tunnel, carefully lower the panel and disconnect the various plugs

To remove the shroud from the column you will need a T8 torx screwdriver, for two of the screws as its quite a deep recess and I had to shave the handle down on the one I have for it too reach.

The cover comes apart in a swinging motion as it kind of hinges from the back.

Once you have released the electrical connections of the module, slacken the clamping screw on the underside to release the steering module with the slip-ring and stalks on and slide it off the column.

I advise you to tape the slip ring or be careful not to let it turn, you don't want to fit it back on one revolution out of place and damage it.

If like me you purchased the stalk only then you will need to remove the slip-ring from the rest of the module, do so by releasing the tabs and sliding the unit off.

Now to remove the stalk from the module remove the securing screws (T8) from both the cruise stalk and the indicator stalk, then using your finger placed like mine in the picture you can gently pull down the part where the cruise stalk plugs in to get it free.

Now for your new stalk, rebuild the module and slip ring and refit to the column, replace shroud and steering wheel.

Now from here I rebuilt the car as I had an appointment the following week to have the cluster done, the dealer wanted the old cluster in upon arrival so they could copy settings and mileage across to the new cluster.

In order to keep the costs down I had agreed with the service advisor that I would prepare the car so all they had to do was copy the info and unplug the old cluster and pop in the new one and transfer the details across.

The charge for that was 30mins labour at £60

The trim around the instrument cluster is fairly easy to remove and I did it sitting in the car park of Audi prior to the appointment.

To do so remove the aluminium trim as before in this thread both sides of the dash
Remove the air vents either side of the cluster using Marcins guide as follows

There are two locking clips on each vent, use a thick ish, not to flexible, steel wire bend in U shape or use two very small allen keys. Lift the clips and pull the vent out but be carefull as there is a electrical connector on each vent.

Next undo the hex bolts as per pictures below

And to remove the trim

- lower and extend out the steering wheel as far as possible
- turn the ignition off, left, but leave the key to stop the steering wheel going into exit position (up)
- indicator lever down
- hold wipers lever down while removing the trim
- rotate the trim from the bottom out as if hinged at the top

Once you have the cluster in and CP removed you will need to carry out the coding on the various modules required.

The Gateway uses long coding,
Open module 19-CAN Gateway
click on "long coding helper"
In the popup window, using the down arrow on the keyboard press it enough times until you are at byte 4, then check the bit 0 box for [13] Distance Regulation.
Press the escape key, that will copy the new coding to the new coding box
Press Do it!

The Control head [07] has to be adapted to have the adaptive cruise control menu in systems on the mmi

Open the module 07-Control Head and press adaptation button, then from the drop down choose Installation list 1 then hover you mouse over the value box and the helper pop up will appear like below, using it add 1 to the stored value, press test then save and close the controller.

Module 1 Engine I and 11-Engine II need the same coding change
Click on Long coding helper
In the popup window, using the down arrow on the keyboard press it enough times until you are at byte 6, then uncheck the bit 0 box and check bit box 1
The value for byte 6 should be 02 like in the pic below.
Press the escape key, that will copy the new coding to the new coding box
Press Do it!

Remember the same process for 11-Engine II

Open module 13-Auto Dist. Reg,
CONTROLLER 13 Autodistance radar sensor controller has to be coded following this label:
Position 1: Engine coding
1XXXX: 8-cylinder (4.2-litre petrol engine and 4.0-litre TDI engine and 4.2-litre TDI and 4.2-litre FSI)
2XXXX: 8-cylinder (3.7 litre petrol)
3XXXX: 6-cylinder MPI (3.0 litre with Multitronic gearbox "01J") and 6-cylinder TDI (3.0 litre with 6-speed gearbox "09L") and 6-cylinder FSI (3.2 litre with Multitronic gearbox "01J") and 6-cylinder FSI (2.8 litre AVS with Multitronic gearbox "01J")
4XXXX: 12-cylinder 6.0 litre petrol engine and 10-cylinder FSI 5.2 litre petrol engine
Position 2: Country coding 1
A 1 is always entered at this position
Position 3: Body coding
XX1XX: Standard body
XX2XX: Stretched body
Note on position 3:
This coding adapts the vehicle mass and wheelbase accordingly.
Position 4: Country coding 2
XXX1X: USA (mph)
XXX2X: Canada (km/h)
XXX3X: ----------------------------
XXX4X: Japan
XXX5X: RoW (mph) (RoW = Rest of the World)
XXX6X: RoW (km/h)
Position 5: Optional extras (added together)
XXXX1: Vehicle with trailer hitch and/or Rear Seat Entertainment system fitted- If one or both of the systems is/are fitted, the adaption value is always 1!!
XXXX4: Vehicle with one-touch memory
XXXX8: Without optional extras
If no optional extras are coded, the coding value 8 is entered

Open module 16-Steering wheel
Click on coding and change the second last digit to the appropriate value in my case it went from 4 to 5

Open module 17-Instruments
click on security and login with the code 13861 to enable adaption of the module

Then click on adaptation and select Adaptive cruise control from the drop down
Enter a new value of 1, test, save and close controller

At this point switch of the ignition and go have a cuppa.

The instrument cluster and possibly the other module need to be power cycled before the adaptions and coding become active, this led me to much frustration because I didn't do it when adapting the new cluster and it didn't behave as expected.

Now if at this point you have connected everything back up and fitted all the trims do a full scan, clear any faults and scan again to see if you have any problems you should have a operational system at this point.

Only thing left to do is drive it and see if it works and possibly to some fiddling with basic settings of the radar.

Unfortunately the radar has no label files so, but you can download the attached text file and save it into the User folder of your ross tech labels folder, then re-save the file with the ext .lbl and have the various measuring blocks you need when you open VCDS.

The picture below is of the measuring blocks that are of importance

Group 002 block1 is horizontal alignment and block 2 is vertical alignment.

Group 11 block 1 is Steering angle sensor. and group 11 block 2 is lateral yaw rate offset.

According to elsa both the beam alignment angles have to be 0.5 degrees or less to function error free.

I had readings of over 2 degrees after a run, but on the next run out it was less, I think it relearns on every drive so the readings may be way off if you journey had a lot of bends in it.

To clear the values one must perform a basic setting to allow the radar to relearn the offsets.

Do this by selecting basic setting then press the go button next to 001
Then press the on/off/next button twice
Then manual change the group value box to 002 and perform the same steps
Repeat this process for 003 and 004
Press Done,Go back and close the controller
Ignition off wait for a bit then go for a drive and see if it works.

I don't think I have missed out anything important but if you want to ask questions then please do.

If your doing this to something other than an S8 then the coding/adaption for the engine could be different

I found this thread on retrofitting ACC very useful and it has info in there for coding the engine in cars with one ecu.

Lastly I would like to thank Dave @ A8 Parts for sorting me out the parts I needed

jordan233 · Wysłany: 2016-05-21, 20:15

Ładnie opisane,ale to z polifta.
Musi być jakiś kabel do jednostki j104 a tego nie widać.

Drago ta stronka strasznie okrojona ,info dostałem od Michała.
Poprawiłem w poście powyżej

gotman25 · Wysłany: 2016-05-21, 21:01

Patrzac na schemat to nie widze nic bezposrednio do ABS.

Jedynie moze by pin 5 na radarze do ogrzewania ale tam jest ze od chyba 2005 nie ma juz. i 2 kable ida do jakies wtyczki i z tej wtyczki jedno idzie do ABS.

Ktory masz rok? To saprawdze dokladniej schematy, bo tylko patrzylem na ten co tutaj wstawilem i zobacze czy jest roznica.

jordan233 · Wysłany: 2016-05-21, 21:03

gotman25 · Wysłany: 2016-05-22, 09:44

Sprawdzilem schematy i w 2003, 4.2 beznzyna wygladaja tak samo.

Ja nic nie widze bezposrednio idacego do ABS.

Ida dwa dodatkowe kable do wtyczki g17 ale nie widze gdzie to dalej idzie. Polaczenie/gniazdo diagnostyczne?.
Jest w nogach kierowcy szare:)

Ktos te kable tez mial w schematach ale nie podlaczal w tym co ja wstawilem.

jordan233 · Wysłany: 2016-05-22, 09:56

gotman25 · Wysłany: 2016-05-22, 12:02

No niby 4 tylko:) I to widzialem w 2 watkach.
Kumpel dokladal sobie w Mercedesie E classie i tez mial 4 tylko. 2 do Can i 2 zasilanie.

No jesli bede zakladal to sie pochwale.
Mialem D4 ale tylko SE bez wielkich bajerow i sprzedalem szukam nowego zeby mial juz wszystko.

D3 teraz traktuje to zabawy i nauki i za bardzo nie chce pakowac w niego kasy:)

Ale jak wpadna mi graty jakos tanio to zaloze bo liczylem ze to okolo £300 czyli nie jest zle:)

jordan233 · Wysłany: 2016-08-30, 19:31

ja graty już mam,ale z radaru który otrzymałem wychodzi 7 kabelków(obcięte) więc do czego 3 pozostałe są???

szik · Wysłany: 2016-08-31, 00:47

potrzebujesz 4 grzałkę można wyłączyć diagnoza idzie tylko po can
jaki masz nr radaru ?

jordan233 · Wysłany: 2016-08-31, 07:05

szik · Wysłany: 2016-09-01, 17:38

potrzebujesz 2-cany pomarańczowe ,zasilanie najbliżej ze sterownika abs i masę

maciu · Wysłany: 2016-09-20, 20:33